learymark wrote:

It is clearly obvious that your “expense” has left you with such a lack of humility that you can’t even let one musician help another find some honest work without spitting out some crap about what qualifies as a show.



I am sorry you beleive my opinion is so threatening. The truth hurts sometimes. It's funny though I have heard from other people that have met you and they were just as turned off by what you said to them. A band from Philly told me you were badmouthing Kevin from PhillySka because he didn't want to cooperate with you. I mean Mark you are old enough to be my father c'mon these postings are really hateful.



learymark wrote:

Your idea of booking URB was little more that a last second call to fill in for another band that backed out – nothing more. I don’t even remember a second show.


Actually you are wrong the first show I booked you at was not a fill-in gig. I have the flyer to prove it. It was booked months in advance with Rootworkers, Chariots, Wareika Hill, and King Django. At the end of the show and numerous months after the show you asked me for other opportunities.

At the second gig it was not really last minute (2 weeks in advance) which I made a flyer for. But once again the crowd you promised to bring was not there. But you were the first person to ask about money. I do remember that but you know that's business buddy.

learymark wrote:

You also have a creative memory as I never threatened anyone at the 13th Floor but was sticking up for you as the manager was in your face first talking about how you were a fake DJ! Looking back I can see his point.



I was sticking up for my boys the Rootworkers. The club refused to pay the band. And it was their last show a lot of tensions were flying high. And Pablo was being hassled by the guy then I stepped in and than you stepped in. When I dj I often do it not for the money but for the enjoyment of my friends. I guess being a fake dj if you look on my myspace you asked me to dj one of your gigs a few months ago. I guess you were in need of a fake dj.


learymark wrote:

Anyone can write…and I know that you don’t hate the Players even though they play fake gigs?



Anyone can write? But Mark you don't know me. You don't know my track record. You don't know my involvement in the scene. I go see bands, I support bands, I am a reggae fan first. I don't see you out any show that doesn't directly invovle you. You don't post on this board. You only posted here to make some hateful comments to me. This website was created to build up a community. Some bands don't utilize the resource we try to offer.

I am a musician, a dj, and a promoter second. I never let anything go to my head. Ask anyone that knows me and works with me.

I think your anger is the source of your negativity. I have seen you blow up at people on more then one occasion. I just hope for your sake you don't do that in front of the wrong person it could be a dangerous move.



learymark wrote:

URB has donated $1200 to cancer research so far this year and have another $1200 donation scheduled for June – Not bad for a band that is all about the money.


My comments threaten you so much that you feel you have to disclose private information to try to convince other people you are a good person. I think that is great what you do and I have not said URB are awful people. I don't think that but I think Mark you need to grow up.

I don't think I have to make public any donations I make personally. Rude In DC worked and helped put together a couple benefit shows. This year though we have not been actively doing shows. Michelle explains that in her post. You do know who Michelle is, right?

I don't need URB for anything. But I do know I have helped your band more then you have helped me. A lot of people I know did not even know you guys were from Baltimore until I mentioned your band to them. And if this is how you react to some negative criticism. I wish you could have just been a 'man' about this and speak to me personally. I have been public about my feelings and thoughts. I only wish you would have been less facetious. I guess this is how you treat people that do good for you.





learymark wrote:

And yes the Ottobar is pretty weak but I really hadn’t noticed until you mentioned it. Thanks again.



I guess the Ottobar is weak compared to the clubs you play at like Penguins. I mean c'mon you really pack em in there correct? That's what I hear. Please note my sarcasm. I will be doing no shows with any band you play in or invovled with. I will make sure as many people as possible see and read your comments.



learymark wrote:

You were also misinformed about the Toots show. I spoke with the leader of the players about an entirely different issue regarding the Toots show so YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN B. Gossip suck’s when you have a misinformed source.


I know what you said. I did not want to post this here but its funny you want to make gossip up about me. You still haven't named the band that said they were being underpaid. If you want email their name we don't have to make it public. I mean I am sure you wouldn't just make something up.



learymark wrote:

I unlike you read word for word what you said about URB and reggae musicians as a whole. Should we go there?


I don't think you understand what you read. I will be more then welcome to sit down and explain the comments line by line. I never said specific musicians are drug dealers or alcoholics. But Andrew and I were argueing a point. He said Dj's had no right to play at clubs where live bands could play.

I made up a hypothetical situation where if a band was full of junkies they would have more of a right to play a club then a dj that had a child or something. It was kind of exxagerated point of view to prove that Andrew's point did not have any validity. I was not inferring anything about the Players or URB or any musician. I am a musician. But what is so wrong that I made a made up senario? Why is this such a big deal to you?

Post edited by: bobbybobson, at: 2008/05/11 17:06

bobbybobson wrote:
I made up a hypothetical situation where if a band was full of junkies they would have more of a right to play a club then a dj that had a child or something.

I am not a junkie and neither is anybody I know. Chances are a DJ that has a child isn't supporting the child solely from the cash they make from DJing, or if they are, that's a hell of a lot of DJing. Given this unlikely scenario, however, I would much rather put money in the hands of the parent instead of the junkie.

As for the rest of this thread, I don't think personal attacks have any place in any public forum, hence why they are called "personal" attacks.

I am more than happy to continue this debate in a mature manner and for the record I shared our conversation with URB (didn't know it was shared with the Players as well) because this was not done. Rather, there were many offensive comments directed towards me, URB, and even jazz music and musicians or anybody trying to make a living from playing music, as well as live music in general. Even Penguins is getting some hate for some reason, which is owned by Cheech, who is a great person who happens to put on shows and pay the bands that come through. Predator Dub Assassins were just there recently. Cheech also hires DJ Preech to spin records in between sets for the reggae shows, and Mark often helps out with sound and Tuesday night open mic nights. I don't understand what is wrong with this let alone what Penguins has to do with this at all. This is why so many people are taking offense to it. Granted, this should have been resolved a long time ago and definitely should not have been taken as personally as it has been, but some things were said that couldn't be ignored and I guess what was said at the beginning of this thread was the last straw for some people.

--Andrew

Didn't have anything negative to say about Penguins. But the Ottobar according Mark is "weak" but the band has numerous dates at Penguins. The Ottobar books national acts Penguins books mainly local acts. I have heard from people who have atteneded the shows there that there were barely anyone there. You actually told me Andrew you said it was like a band practice. No disrespect to Cheech I know the guy and don't have anything negative to say. But I just hope he is wary of Mark.

Mrs. Jones offered us a show at Penguins. Because she wants to help the club out. I told her if we were ready we would play. But I found out the show is through Mark so I won't be invovled. Good luck!

I tried to difuse the arguement from the beginning Andrew. Your bandmate took it upon himself to bring up previous events he had beef about -- I didn't know the man was so bitter.

I have made offers in previous posts to try to dissolve this arguement on friendly terms. But Mr. Leary took it way too far so he made his bed. Let him lie in it.

Andrew I don't record any friends conversations the only person I know to have done that would be Richard Nixon.

Post edited by: bobbybobson, at: 2008/05/12 00:16

bobbybobson wrote:
Andrew I don't record any friends conversations the only person I know to have done that would be Richard Nixon.<br><br>Post edited by: bobbybobson, at: 2008/05/12 00:16

You didn't seem like a friend to me that night, considering what was said. Here's a Nixon quote for you:

"We cannot learn from one another until we stop shouting at one another - until we speak quietly enough so that our words can be heard as well as our voices."

--Andrew

I did apologize to you. But you didn't record or send that convo to anyone. I am not excusing what I said. I stand by what I say. At the same time I told you throughout the conversation I was not being serious with what I was saying. And half my comments were sarcastic. Someone sent me the comments you sent the band and half of them are out of context. But I learned something about what type of person you are that day.

Post edited by: bobbybobson, at: 2008/05/12 00:59

I am not one for big sentences.


SHUT THE FUCK UP.

AND THAT WAS DIRECTED AT EVERYONE BUT NOT REALLY BOB BUT ESPECIALLY EVERYONE SHUT THE FUCK UP I DO NOT TYPE SMART THE END.

bobbybobson wrote:
I did apologize to you. But you didn't record or send that convo to anyone. I am not excusing what I said. I stand by what I say. At the same time I told you throughout the conversation I was not being serious with what I was saying. And half my comments were sarcastic. Someone sent me the comments you sent the band and half of them are out of context. But I learned something about what type of person you are that day.<br><br>Post edited by: bobbybobson, at: 2008/05/12 00:59

It doesn't matter if you say you weren't being serious or if you were being sarcastic, a lot of what you said was very offensive. It's like telling someone "no offense, but you're fucking ugly". You can say "no offense" or "I wasn't being serious" as much as you want, but it's still offensive, and of course there's still some truth in it. If there wasn't truth in it, and if you weren't serious about it, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

As for me sending the band comments that were out of context, that's ridiculous, considering what I sent the band was the full conversation unedited.

--Andrew

ANDREW can you do the 30th or not? There are no unity gigs on the website or in this trash thread. Yes then?

Last response... then you guys say whatever you else you want to say. Joe's intitial response to me, Andy's response, Mark Leary's response was all sparked over a private aim conversation. No one would have responded to my remarks unless you already had a problem with me. I saw you guys since these emails went out and no one brought up any probelm with me to my face. I saw Mark at the toots show. Mark said he was suprised I could look him eye to eye. But I did look him eye to eye. And then he said he had no problem with me. I saw Andrew numerous times. I saw Joe numerous times. No one had the guts to address a problem with me face to face.

OMG you know, I really love all the people involved and maybe it's time for everyone to just let this rest and try to get over it. I admit that I have not read word for word everything here, but enough to see that everyone involved seems to have some valid points. I can also see the very strong emotions. Everyone is sensitive about what they do and people are entitled to their opinions, but this is very sad, at least for me to see.
I know that I may not be considered a part of this community exactly and you may feel like I have no business putting in my two cents, but I need to say that from the beginning, I have always seen dcska and the people in the DC /Balt. Music scene as almost a family, something I've always admired.

Now it appears that lines are being drawn and that a shit storm of more insults and broken relationships are just waiting to happen over something that was said during a private conversation then repeated and possibly not as accurately as it could have been.
I just want to ask, is all of this really necessary?

Oh and Michelle, thanks for the plug! Funny that Katie lives here and always forgets that we do a few shows!

Rudy, all the long sentences are for YOU

bobbybobson wrote:
Last response... then you guys say whatever you else you want to say. Joe's intitial response to me, Andy's response, Mark Leary's response was all sparked over a private aim conversation. No one would have responded to my remarks unless you already had a problem with me. I saw you guys since these emails went out and no one brought up any probelm with me to my face. I saw Mark at the toots show. Mark said he was suprised I could look him eye to eye. But I did look him eye to eye. And then he said he had no problem with me. I saw Andrew numerous times. I saw Joe numerous times. No one had the guts to address a problem with me face to face.

Bob, to be honest, I was only responding to your comments here in this thread, because I was offended by the way you responded to my post. Members from both The Players and Unity had an e-mail conversation about the IM conversation (wow..that sounds so geeky), and this is what I told the others (next four paragraphs):

"I don't understand the point that Andrew is trying to make. I don't see a
problem with large venues having DJ nights; they've had them for years (i.e.
decades). If I was a bar owner and had the choice between paying $400 for a
DJ, or $800 for a live band, I'd probably pick the DJ, although this
decision would obviously depend on numerous other considerations."


"It looks like Bob initiated the conversation because he heard that Andrew
was talking negatively about DJs. Bob fails to take into consideration a
large number of factors that play into the DJ vs. live band debate. The
Baltimore/DC area is littered with dozens of music/DJ venues, and they all
fight for the same crowd, basically. Times are tough nowadays, too. It's
expensive to go out to a club. Taking that into consideration, it's cheaper
for someone to go to a DJ night (pay $5 cover) vs. going to see a live band
perform (anywhere from $8 to $20 and up). Lithuanian Hall is also becoming
known as a trendy spot; good music and INCREDIBLY cheap booze. I guarantee
that if they had their DJ night at the Ottobar, they would not have as large
a crowd as they do at Lithuanian Hall."


"Bob's opinions definitely come off as elitist, though. Seriously, it does
NOT take the same level of skill to select songs to play as it does to write
music. That's just horseshit. And I don't really see where he gets off
saying that Unity is materialistic. The only thing that I believe he is
correct in saying is that there is a lot of mediocrity in live music."


"Having said all of this, I've never had a problem with Bob in terms of
booking shows or anything. Sounds like he was just defending himself and
fellow DJs against something that he heard Andrew say through the grapevine,
albeit he sounded like an elitist ass while doing so. I can understand why
Andrew felt like he should forward it to the members of Unity, but beyond
that, I don't think it's anyone's business (can't think of a way to make
that sound pleasant...*heh heh*)"




Don't take the "sounded like an elitist ass" comment too seriously; that's just the way I felt that you sounded in the IM conversation.

I never brought it up to you, because I didn't think it was anything that needed to be brought up; I didn't see it as a "problem". Having said that, you 1) called Unity a "glorified cover band," 2) said that "it's just a shame when i see a band play and all i see are dollar signs," and 3) said "to be honest i don't book urb becuz i think u guys r too materialistic." Although I 100% do not agree with Mark on his personal attacks against you in this thread, I can 100% understand why he would be pissed off. People have to be careful with the way they word e-mails or IMs. I think you both should just apologize for insulting the other and call it a day.

DCSka. We know drama.

Blonde1 wrote:
I know that I may not be considered a part of this community exactly and you may feel like I have no business putting in my two cents

Nonsense! You do a lot for the local music scene; your opinion is respected just like everyone else.

This is all Rudy's fault. I don't know how, but it is. Him. And his short sentences.

By the way, I'd like to take this opportunity to commend the "Subscribe to Post" feature on this board. That is all.

JoeRoss578 wrote:
DCSka. We know drama.
haha. YES! although this wasn't nearly as good as the Antigone Rising drama. if this continues, i'll make stickers with that motto.

JoeRoss578 wrote:
This is all Rudy's fault
agreed. when in doubt blame rudy. he just came back and it's been downhill since.

JoeRoss578 wrote:
By the way, I'd like to take this opportunity to commend the "Subscribe to Post" feature on this board.
thanks! at least one thing works right with the board. i know some people stopped using the board because it was slow for them.

Big problems in little china bring bad Tofu!

What ever the F*#k that means!

I as a musician/ club owner/ talent buyer & talent negotiator feel that if the two worked together more they all might make a bit more money, fans, and create more opportunities for one another. Lets stop all the hating, bashing and degrading and come together as one to create the music alliance the once use to be. (I sound like, who knows!) Anyway, people fail to realize the power of music and what it all really means. Come together and it will be built! I have played in front of hundreds and I have played in front of a few but every time I have to find something positive to remember about the show.

My venue has solely focused on the Local Original Artist, the reason being I wanted to give artists an outlet that was not there. So I was willing to take the good with the bad. And have shows that were packing the club and shows that were not. Plus I bring out of state original artists to play the venue. Its about the music, yes I need to pay bills, but there is not another venue in baltimore that does what I do. Or is as chill a spot. My spot is struggling because of this, but I have faith that it will all work out.

If we all spent the amount of time promoting each other as we spent on this message board I bet you we would be that much further.

Remember behind every successful man or woman there are a PACK of HATERS.




Peace
Cheech Barry
410.493.7443
http://myspace.com/cheechb
http://myspace.com/penguins_pub

seriously.

everyone shut the fuck up.